If you encounter a problem when playing NSR
Controller too twitchy

Controller too twitchy

Postby Rabbit80 on Sat Jul 07, 2012 22:41

Is there anything I can do to fix my controller issues? Using an XBOX360 controller in Win7 x64. It is impossible to make smooth fine adjustments to direction. The slightest movement on the stick pitches the car across the track - its almost impossible to keep it traveling in the right direction.

Also the steering is way too quick - full lock seems to be instant.

Steering sensitivity in the options seem to make no difference.

Between the lack of fine control and the speed of the steering they are ruining what is otherwise an awesome game - in this type of game, controls are everything.

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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Etienne on Sat Jul 07, 2012 23:31

Sorry, the only way to tweak this is to play with the steering sensitivity option, however it's true that with a joystick it doesn't really solve the issue. The problem is that there are filters available but they are only effective with digital buttons.
When I play with a pad it's a ps2 pad and I have the same problem, so until I put filters on analog sticks, I use digital buttons for the steering, it's much more playable.
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Mac on Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:52

Xbox controllers also have a notoriously high deadzone. I'd recommend finding a different controller (I bought a Saitek P3200 specifically for NSR) that doesn't have the 'wiggle' at the centre of the hat that xbox pads do.

The only way to solve THAT would be to add a 'deadzone' config to the game. Also, maybe a 'steering speed' option might be useful (best way to explain this is that it would limit how quickly the car steering catches up to input ... basically it limits the amount of degrees of steering angle per physics step the wheels can move - from my experience steering input is instant, so an option to limit how quick steering moves when the joysticks are moved might be useful.)

I think my best times were actually set using a PS2 pad too. tap-tap-tap tactics LOL. but I try to use analog as it's more useful with recovering collisions.
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Rabbit80 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:46

Maybe filtering for controllers ought to be a feature request then - should I make a separate post in that area of the forum or are you saying that this is something you don't wish to add?

There's no way I can use the d-pad on the controller - I find it worse than useless, and I can't play driving games with digital controls. I much prefer the ability to fine control the car. Also, I don't have a disposable income at the moment so I am not buying a new controller and I don't have room for a full steering wheel / pedals arrangement.

What would be awesome is adjustable filters where you could tweak the speed and sensitivity to your own individual needs - even if you just hid the settings in a config file somewhere! I can't imagine that it would be that difficult to implement.
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Rabbit80 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:50

Mac wrote:Xbox controllers also have a notoriously high deadzone. I'd recommend finding a different controller (I bought a Saitek P3200 specifically for NSR) that doesn't have the 'wiggle' at the centre of the hat that xbox pads do.

The only way to solve THAT would be to add a 'deadzone' config to the game. Also, maybe a 'steering speed' option might be useful (best way to explain this is that it would limit how quickly the car steering catches up to input ... basically it limits the amount of degrees of steering angle per physics step the wheels can move - from my experience steering input is instant, so an option to limit how quick steering moves when the joysticks are moved might be useful.)

I think my best times were actually set using a PS2 pad too. tap-tap-tap tactics LOL. but I try to use analog as it's more useful with recovering collisions.


There is already a deadzone setting in the game and that works fine, however once moving past the deadzone, the game interprets the input value from the pad incorrectly - starting at whatever value the pad is showing rather than starting from a zero position. It appears to be this that makes very fine adjustments impossible. Eg - if pad range is from 0 to 255 and deadzone is at 20, once past the deadzone the game takes value of 21 for steering input rather than a value of 1 making a much sharper turn than is intended.

I can't stand PS2 pads - they don't fit my large hands very well.
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Etienne on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:36

I'm not saying you should use a ps2 pad, they have the same deadband problem as other controllers we've tested so far.
I'll check the bug you're describing about the deadband setting.
I'm not against putting a filter for analog steering input. In fact we totally agree it's needed. Even with the best analog stick of the world, It is needed, as we don't cheat much with vehicle physics, so even with all the dirving helps on, the steering is very sensitive on an analog stick. The very strong aerodynamic downforce of F-Jet doesn't help :mrgreen: .

I'll try to work on theses bug + filter feature for the next update (which will probably come very soon).
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Rabbit80 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:31

Etienne wrote:I'm not saying you should use a ps2 pad, they have the same deadband problem as other controllers we've tested so far.
I'll check the bug you're describing about the deadband setting.
I'm not against putting a filter for analog steering input. In fact we totally agree it's needed. Even with the best analog stick of the world, It is needed, as we don't cheat much with vehicle physics, so even with all the dirving helps on, the steering is very sensitive on an analog stick. The very strong aerodynamic downforce of F-Jet doesn't help :mrgreen: .

I'll try to work on theses bug + filter feature for the next update (which will probably come very soon).


I have to say - I'm not certain about the deadzone bug, it is just how it feels when I try to make micro adjustments the steering feels like it jumps. I have to have quite a high setting as my controller naturally pulls to the right a bit. It would be great if you can check it though :)

It's nice to be able to speak with developers - working together we can make this awesome game even better!
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Mac on Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:47

Yeah ... it seems that the 'deadzone' isn't working as it's supposed to. (it IS supposed to scale the steering around the deadzone, not just jump to the appropriate value once beyond it x.o)

Anyways I don't use Xbox pads because by default the triggers use the same axis (which means that accelerating and braking at the same time is impossible - holding both triggers has the game interpret the input as 'neutral' so the cars just coast instead of braking and holding the throttle through like you'd think they do.) I bought a Saitek P3200 anyway because the analog sticks are rubbish on xbox pads ... although the Saitek itself has a curious bug in the game in that if I map the acceleration/throttle to the triggers, the airbrake always gets triggered when in the air (i.e I go through the air very slowly, whereas if I map them to the L1/R1 buttons I fly through the air normally)

If this sounds like it doesn't do a lot... IIRC using triggers for throttle, the maximum speed I get in the air (tested on the canyon circuit) was 245km/h. Throttle set to buttons I can hit 310km/h. :/
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Etienne on Sun Jul 08, 2012 21:07

Strange, I just checked the behaviour and the code, it appears to work as it should.
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Rabbit80 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 21:12

As I said - I can't say for certain that the bug is real. It could simply be a symptom of having no filtering. It's damn near impossible to control properly though.
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Re: Controller too twitchy

Postby Mac on Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:43

I've been playing with an Xbox pad the past few days (I find it more comfortable than my Saitek), and I can confirm that the deadzone is working as it should.

Xbox pads need a very high deadzone setting in-game (I had to set mine at 16 to entirely remove the effects) but I could see from cockpit cam that there wasn't a 'jump' in steering input when beyond the initial deadzone. So, it's being scaled properly.


The issue then is that the cars' steering is very sensitive, and hard to accurately control with a joypad. A very small steering angle is needed to make the car turn; a few degrees before this the car won't turn at all, and then when you reach that angle the car suddenly responds with little warning. I suppose in reality that this is realistic (cars don't need a high slip angle in order to get maximum steering), but for a joypad the effective 'range' of steering the user is going to want for control through a corner is a very small area of the joypad itself. I think it's because unlike other games, the game doesn't scale down the maximum steering angle based on speed (a good example is Blur and most simulation racers).

However, I would rather always have full control of the entire steering angle, because for things like driving on dirt or correcting mistakes/collisions, it's a must. It just has the drawback of making the cars - especially the Air-XS - difficult to control due to the low input required to make them turn, and therefore the difficulty in managing that small range of input to control any oversteer or understeer that might surface.


I still think some 'smoothing' of car input is required for analog input (similar to the digital input having a limit on how quickly the wheels turn). I think this does affect the ability to control the cars as the OP pointed out; on joypads, the steering produces a sort of 'stepping effect' in the handling as the joysticks are imperfect. It's most noticeable in cockpit cam. Also something else does need to be implemented because unlike some other games, I don't get a 'feel' for the cars; in Blur, the rumble support is very effective at telling the player when the car is at the limit of its grip, and in NSR this 'feedback' of steering input is absent. It doesn't help that the rumble doesn't work on Xbox controllers at all (that needs fixing :/)
Something that helps the player to know when the car is close to its limit in terms of cornering angle/traction should be something considered to be implemented, basically. I'm not suggesting that a driver aid needs adding to control the car for the player - it should be the player who should be driving the car. I'm just saying that better feedback of the car's handling is needed; this lack of feedback is why the only car I can drive in the game is the Photon (because it has chronic understeer, I know exactly what it's going to do ... there are no surprises for when I step beyond its limits as it simply stops turning in.)

I don't have a steering wheel so I don't know how good those are at giving feedback to the player. I've been thinking of buying one anyway (both for NSR and maybe for F1 2012 ... and possibly to set it up for my PSX emulator so I can properly play DD2 again.)


Just some feedback anyway, but for the OP: Try driving the Photon for the time being. It's got the most predictable handling of all the cars and it's probably the best choice for driving with a joypad whilst you learn the game.
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